E79 - Let's Talk About Race

Tara Brads street looped

Let's Talk About Race

00:00:05 - 00:05:01

Each. We were you good Mousa? Joel. I'm down in San Diego I'm the mom one an IM weans? I meant L. A. and I am the the single one in the film business, and we're GONNA. Get right to it in the wake of what is happening right now with George Floyd. There's a lot of protests going on still and we thought it was important to talk. Talk about it, so we sat down here with some of our good friends to talk. Listen and discuss in here. Thoughts on racism. Black Lives Matter George Floyd and what can we do in our own lives and families to work towards the solution will inter these people I. You're going to hear Ahmed Hassan. He is a longtime friend. He's been on our podcast before. He calls himself a forty six year old black man with an Arab name, because his father went to San Quentin penitentiary for six years and became a Muslim. He is a landscape professional in northern California best known as the original host and Co Creator of HDTV, diy networks yard crashers. He's a dad of three and says he'll be a father to those who need him. He's a green industry expert and he is a great person. You can find and follow him by searching Ahmed Hassan landscaper. And a second voice you'RE GONNA! Hear is Angela more. He's an artist, poet and musician. He's been the lead singer of fishbone since nineteen, seventy nine with their slogan being faulk racism, he also has many other musical projects and collaborations as Dr Mad vibe, one of the projects is the brand new step. Another one is project infidelity with members, DOC and war, and Sammy Hagar and he's done a bunch of. Tours with celebrating David Bowie and you could be a part of his world. His crazy world on patriots dot com slash Angela more. Then you're gonNA, hear from Marlene, Bell she is from Oakland California and has big footsteps to follow because her father was the very first African American optometrist on the West Coast in nineteen, thirty nine, doing amazing things, opening clinics advising people and Founding Vision Service Plan. ESP, so marlene then paved her way. She graduated from UC Davis. She taught in the classroom for twenty seven years, and she also spent that time conducting teacher training in diversity, and later became a union organizer for the California Teachers Association she became. became the assistant executive director in charge of more than half the state and she is now retired. She owns a store in Oakland and told us the story about how it was saved from damage, the first two nights of riots in Oakland, but then the third night it was damaged, but she had a great attitude about it saying you know it's only stuff. It's the cause that matters now. She and her husband Bob run a walnut farm in. You can visit their website at bell ranch dot net. and. Our forth guest is Michelle Harper in amazing force and the creative and healing spaces. She grew up on the east coast, and had a flourishing career in the beauty design and fashion industries working at Bergdorf, Goodman Saks fifth avenue barneys New York, and she was the first African American woman, founder and director of an internationally acclaimed. Rosary Company called look from London hosiery. She worked with companies in Paris, and all over the world, and after moving to California now works as a clinical hypnotherapist institition, and she works in sound and energy, healing, ricky and color therapy, so you can find Michelle at breathe, focus, hypnosis, dot, com, and usually somewhere angeles. Orbit, because they are significant others, and then there's the two of us we are just. We're thankful for these gusts. We are ready to learn ready to support. We WanNA. Help raise awareness to people's stories. And again this is just friends. Having open honest dialogue that we hope can help. We're going to put information from this. In a transcription of this episode are on our show notes on mouse and WEANS DOT COM and will put the video version on our youtube channel, so we hope you enjoy an please look for more episodes like this in the future here we go.

Ahmed: My name is still Ahmed Hassan. I'm still a 46 year old black man (until September - I will be 47) who has lived my life probably more so in the white community than I have in the black community. I've had both but I currently reside in Cameron Park California, which is very white and very right. And it works for me. One of the first things my mom said when I told her I was moving she was like, "Are there any black folks in Cameron Park?" "No, Mom. You know. I'm the one."

00:05:02 - 00:10:00

I live amongst the white people. I show them that were all the same, and then all y'all come on up the hill.

Angelo: So that's what you call fly in the buttermilk, man!

Ahmed: That's right. That's been the story of my life. It's why I feel like Julianne. And it's how I relate to people like Marlene, who lives in Winters California because I lived there too. And it's not known for its black community. And her daughter - Marlene's daughter - and I actually went to the same elementary school in Davis. She was like one of the black families, and I was one of the black families, even though her daughter's probably lighter than Marlene, so nobody really knows what she is. She just had a 'fro. And another family and that was it. So we had some common ground there. But the reason I think that we're all here is because I also grew up with Julianne. For a time as a child I met her sister Joelle, and now these gals have this podcast. And of recent I've been sharing back and forth with Julianne... 

Angelo: Hey man, I know what you mean. I grew up in white neighborhood man. Fly in the buttermilk. Woodland Hills. My family's one of the first black families in Woodland Hills California, man. So..

Ahmed: Julianne was saying you got bussed out of Woodland Hills over to the black community as a kid?

Angelo: No, no! My band did. From inner city Los Angeles, the bus program went out to Woodland Hills.

Marlene: There again lies the the benefit of this conversation because I started out in an all-white neighborhood and have been living in all-white schools my whole life like Ahmad. And Oakland Hills being the beginning of that is indelible on my mind as an adult. Because people who don't know Oakland and don't really have familiarity with Oakland think that Oakland is a black community.

Ahmed: When I first got to Oakland I'm like, "Oh my God. There's a lot of Asian people here". And I've never knew of the Oakland hills in particular. Especially when you were a child, I can imagine that was not black at all.

Marlene: No. As a matter of fact, that was when my dad had to double deed the purchase of our home up in the hills through a Jewish friend. And so his friend would buy the property with his cash and deeded it back to him. And the interesting thing is in 1990, he did the same thing in the Napa Valley. He was the first black vintner in the Napa Valley, purchasing land by double-deeading it through friends - white friends.

Ahmed: The only way to get in there.

Marlene: The only way to get in there. Right.

Julianne: You guys were in more of the white community. Did you experience...? Look, this conversation is off the tails of George Floyd and wanting to have open dialog. Just wondering what your experience was then growing up. Did you experience racism?

Marlene: Oh, I can tell you. Yes. I can tell you it was the very first day kindergarten for me. And it's one of the reasons why I became a teacher. I walked into class with my mother like all the other kids. A lot of kids were crying 'cause mom's walking out the door. And my experience was while children were led off to a different activity other than focusing on mine, as the teacher led me over to the paint station, she took me by the upper arm, squeezed it to the bone and said, (in a rough, forced voice) "Wouldn't you like to paint?" And I knew right then and there where I stood in that classroom at five.

Angelo: The teacher did this to you?

Marlene: Yes, absolutely. So you see, the racism I experienced in all white settings went from there to being spat on, and all kinds of other stuff. But I had to endure because that was my school.

Angelo: And where where was this at again?

Marlene: Well, the for my kindergarten experience it was in Oakland. I had... We moved for a period of time up to Victoria, British Columbia. It wasn't as bad there you know. You could...you could survive pretty well because they did not have African Americans as their lowest level of elitism in that...in that community. The Native American was the lowest level of wellness also told her Paul writes in rice, accountable backtrack, and so so I managed to get a step above that, so I was not as much target, but very much at target when I went back to the San Ramon Valley to Danville.

00:10:00 - 00:15:10

Danville. That's where I got to get spit on for being African American in their classroom.

Angelo: And you called it Damn-ville.

Marlene: It still is.

Julianne: I'm... I'm kind of ashamed. Well, not ashamed, but we grew up in San Ramon right next to Danville and I experienced feeling like we didn't have a whole lot of culture there at all in it. I hit sixteen, seventeen and went and lived in Berkeley and Oakland for years, because I wanted that diversity but it was very very white.

Ahmed: You haven't been back ever since.

Julianne: Yeah never. True. I know.

Joelle: And then I grew up, you know, obviously in the same spot. And then I'm kind of repeating the same thing with where I live now. I live in San Diego in a super white suburban area with my three kids. Who have, you know, two or three black friends and that's about it. And we have a couple of families we're friends with, but you know, not super close with. So I want to do better for the next generation and be more inclusive and. We just were kind of feeling like I. Guess that saying White Guilt, White fragility. Everybody's talking about you know, but we want to have this platform, so we can talk about it and figure out. If there's, you know, feelings and what people can do to help the cause and.

Angelo: Good! That's good 'cause... You know, sometimes I forget because I keep myself in a bubble the majority of the time. I would rather consider myself not of this world than I am. It keeps my art pure, music, feelings and and all that shit so... You know, I know a lot of racism is out there and everything but because I've been so used to it, you know, and I grew up getting chased by rednecks in my inner Woodland Hills on the way home from the bus and all the rest of all that type of shit, I ended up... I ended up hating white people. But some good music came out of this. Good lyrics. I embraced the punk rock culture because the punk rock culture was a part of the white culture and they just hated everybody, especially white corporate. Choice a bit. Him. So I. You know I'm black, the black culture was always underground anyway.

Marlene: Had to be.

Angelo: but all, but all boys and everything you know out of my neighborhood Oughta, punk rock that was there. It just gave me a reason to. hate white people right along with the white people that hate it white people, too, so I was like hell man. This is the. People! These are my people, you know rattler and black people ended up. Like like when it came to me, put my music out and everything. A lot of black people didn't embrace. A lot of rock because they felt like it was just. Why Boy Music! They call his hair whiteboard. mazing can't relate to that shit and Nigga you just selling out. You just Tom and. But I'm like no, actually this is like black. That's like all derived from black music, and so when my own black people. Could embrace what I was doing. Even in my own. Household. Aside from. Richard, Pryor Redd Foxx Slip Wilson. the the closest thing Iraq that. My that my family got to was Jimi Hendrix. And that was the closest thing rock that that that my family braced other than that and the doors right when it got to be a little outside the doors. And Buddy buddy rich. No. I send it right, but the drummer buddy rich right. Yeah, that's right. Once he got outside of that. It's like Android punk rock said you need to. You know you know weekend. That's just a noisy shit. I'm well okay. That's interest you know, and so that's where so but a lot of other than that. I realized that I. Keep forgetting it. A lot of white people don't realize. You know this is something I was saying the other day. On my show. The reason why we have a lot of white privilege. And, some of the last days that people would think about we have a lot of white privilege, because this as right Angelo's holding up the twenty dollar bill this guy on the front.

00:15:11 - 00:20:04

Right. This white man doesn't look anything like my granddad. What so ever? If anything he looks like my oppressor. Okay, so white people on a subliminal subconscious level feel comfort. When they pulled us out in a by state, they food that read about everything in the Matrix that was designed by guys that look like this that we live in in this matrix that we live in right. This provides white privilege to exist in of. Indian face on here there are no Latino face, own hair and ain't no black face on here. So No. One black face that could have been on. There was delayed until after the trump presidency. Has End. Harriet Tubman Yeah Harry me right. The one an. And face on the Indian on Indian Benny I. Forget her name, but she was A. Didn't she squeal on her own tribe. Soccer Julia Yeah. Yeah I'm. Kinda like you and Michelle just noticing that. An homage. I think my experience is probably different from everyone so I'm from Baltimore. So Baltimore is from the black community. An affluent black community well with all mixed up, so my parents and my grandmother was a minister as he had to minister husbands, my my life on my father's side, my mother's side, so I come from religious background and grew up in the Black Church You know so. I pretty much grew up around lots of black people. I'm southern black people. You know very kind very humble. You Know Neither League just basic working class people. And I went to school. I was very talented. In I'll start with this, so my dad. When when I was four years old, he was shot. And he paralyzed on one side. He lived he got in his sixties, but I was about four years old and and so I was very artistic. And my dad was going to Tation, so I did a lot of art, so always had an inner world, probably unlike a lot of my peers because I spend a lotta time doing art, those very cream, so I went to school by teachers. Notice that I was really created I was very mature, because I pretty much grew up with my dad because he was learning how to read and write. Could read really early, so that gave me a vantage point in school. So I always had an elevated sense of self. And I was able to participate in programs. I was the only black person. Most of my life. I went to college. I was like you know had like I had. White friends, you know like like this. We everybody was artistic and create it. That grew up in very creative community, and so fast or I ted I didn't feel limited because I never felt limited growing up because I was exposed to a different kind of upbringing, and at the time it was punk rock you know, and so I always felt like an outsider even. Even amongst my peers, even amongst black kids, because the laugh at me, because I was so creative, and I should not walk the creative lifestyle, and so, and that's how I ended up starting a company and started a business when I was very young, and so, but when I felt racism, the most is when I started going to trade shows when I started a business. And I realized that the only way I would get ahead in the fashion business. And this was based on a recommendation was to say that my business was old by a Jewish curse it. So I was twenty two years old, and I started a company, and I had to fill out a done in Grad street warm, and as put down that it was owned by edith an IRA Bergman. And they lived in Australia. Creative. So I, had a show room on. The air. And so for many many years I was the salesperson, and no one knew that I own the company.

00:20:07 - 00:25:02

Out of. either. That story as a pretty common. Exactly. In in trying to get ahead and knowing that. I'm not going to be accepted as a person of color as a black person Oh. Yeah hours very vague exact can I ask you this because this was brought up, saying that our country still is run by weight, supremacy, white supremacy, which is confused with White Supremacist, which a lot of white people get that confused I, think it's. I think this put country has always run on white supremacy. And we have all lived that learned how to move around and to certain extent. But it is also run by White Supremacists, and whether you call it a person who holds onto title and privilege, and doesn't recognize the issues of diversity and inclusion. Name chain the status, so you are now. A country because of who are leadership is past and present. we are a country that has been what run on the principles of white supremacy, and that's why you're seeing people in the street now. They're finally getting it. My problem is are you GonNa? Keep getting. We've gotten it before. We can go back to Rodney King. We can go back to lynchings. We can go back to all kinds of horrific. Conditions that cause people outrage, we go back to the civil rights movement. We were beaten in St Hose Damn. Are they gonNA. Keep getting in. Will they show up about? Do they understand the value democracy? They want change. And is devoting is the. People vote. Because see we can vote. We won't right. And is it GonNa Count. Is it going to count once? It gets there. That's right. Where and you know I think that. I don't have to be negative man but I. Just don't think it's going to count when it gets there because. Because it sends somebody else's hands that that that regular people don't have access to. You know we can't. We can't touch. See or talk to the person that has actually in charge of the person that does is that that's? Always and making the decisions at the end. Yeah I would imagine the feeling is one of distrust. There's no trust in the system. There's no trust in people with power based on history based on what's going on now, so that's hard for hope. That's hard to have hope in that system I think that we're going to see change and we're already seen change. There's there's now this movement to defunding police department. I don't see a parallel movement to. Ban Assault Rifles and we can't get a bill to ban lynching through the Senate. Now, go figure. Why is that what is going on there? You have people who have a new one person held it up. Was Allowed to hell and hold it up and that was rand Paul. He felt it was too broad. They're arguing over the language. Okay, we are you over language all the time because language is important. DESCRIBES INTENT IN. It defines ramblers. But when Senator is holding this thing up, there's more than one Senate four hundred ten members of Congress. Approved the language. In went to the Senate the language of Jimmy. Linson because there's a handy mentioned manx actually. against. Against Lynching in this country still. There's no law against a wall. Yeah, they know log has led you because it keeps outages. There's there's different kinds of ways lynch, somebody is. You know there's the overt and covert. What just happened? So what exactly? What happened? That man could his knee on that on George Floyd's neck and lynched him. That, it didn't have to happen. Genetic happened widow role. Dozing. Harmed Jose while he did exactly. And so lynching is okay in this country, and that's why we've never been able to get language through the Senate or the House. Ever never mind who is in place. Who held it up? Never got to the president's desk.

00:25:03 - 00:30:02

because. They approve lynching so now what you're seeing on the street is. You had for centuries. People who. who identify themselves as law enforcement and those who are hired as law enforcement? To Lynch black people in a number of ways. Institutionalized racism has lynched too many black people, either because they lost their job, or they had a glass ceiling put on top of them. Their opportunity. Stunted because of the color of their skin. And so now we've got people talking about defunding the police department. You can't throw out. People with good intention and who operate in an honest. Trustworthy ethical manner. But you do need to take these do. Do. We're because you know why it's their contract language I'd I'd negotiated teacher contract. But we don't have any contract language that says you are protected against mult the molestation of children. In. The Union does not protect a teacher who is accused of touching child inappropriately. Does and they will send you an appropriate attorney in if you're quitted. Okay acquitted and Then, they will reimburse your legal expenses. Don't pay legal expenses. To protect teachers from inappropriate action police departments language. Does it protects them? That's why you don't see tape recordings, body, camera, tape, recordings, or vocal, verbal tape-recording nine one one released because their contract says they're not releasing it. They'll release what they want to there to. That officer any no. Jones was talking easy attorney and he was talking about which as you can't sue a cop individually, and once they joined the force. Basically they're part of a gang. That gang is going to back each other up as down ability, and and it's called an injury to one is an injury. Aw! Well the same thing applies for African Americans. You have injured and killed and lynched George. Floyd and we've seen to benefit of technology people recording this over and over again. You can't kill lactose or white folks. Without consequence of the problem is disproportionate new-look of sitting in prison. You know how much leverage cops have to kill or lynch or stunt someone's life. And I think people seen enough, but being cooped up with a pandemic only helps. It only helps because it's focused. And it was something about this video to I was hearing. Different people talk about it that the framing of it like seeing. His face looking right into the camera with his hands in his pockets. And then seeing Georgia's face right there on the ground, calling for his mom. I mean just almost cinematic. Maybe it's the movie industry or something, but something about that video, and all of us being at home and. And you know what when I look at. The fact that shopping right had his hands in his pocket and he's posing. Right no matter how much of a and. Statement it was. He knew that the camera was on him. How could you not know that the camera was on you so? He knew what was happening and yeah, it was a statement. He knew what was going on like this. This is what's happening and we can do this and as as an is okay. Eighteen complaints of excessive force against him. I want to ask a question before that I want to ask the question I would ask a question Angelo. I want to ask a question. Michelle I WANNA ask a question Marlene because I'm asking you because I want your black opinion. He knew he could get away with it because of what Angelo. Ypres bathroom. Could get I. Know he could get away with it. Speak for me. Marlene okay. He knew he could get away with it because he was protected by his contract, he was protected by city leaders. He was protected by his race bottom line. This man knew he could get away with it because he had already gotten away with it, he had eighteen complaints of excessive force already on his record, he should never have been caught.

00:30:02 - 00:35:00

He shouldn't have been still working. He had he was involved in five deaths of different people. Under his custody. Okay same question for Michelle. Why did he? Why do you think he felt he could get away with it? Why WanNa person knowing that you have a camera at you several cameras at you. What do you suppose we're just guessing? But why do you suppose Michelle if he felt like? The whole time that I'm listening to all of this. We're talking about white supremacy. I'm also thinking about how. The woman who could call the cops on the guy in the part. About the guy touching her dislike immaterial was dragged through the city, because a white girl was kill was was was killed and he was ranked to that. You know I just feel it feels like that. Why people have a history of being able to get out of situations where there blatantly you know, are accusing me of something that they didn't do, but they know that they're going to be more trusted, been the black person or the black voice, no matter what is like their boys as more power. Then the person of color. Here's the thing. Here's the thing I want to get to you Michelle and you might not. Marlene you might not even know that it's. You can get away with that win. It's a black man. Is Smith gas? Yes, because black men in particular? Angelo over me, simply because of the complexity of his skin is considered more dangerous. Angela me by Angela over me is going to be dealt with differently. Link. Yes that that's what's plane and it's true and it's known in the black community. Apparently some in the white community now this others. Might not I think that's what? That's what all of this plus being about. It's not about George Fluid. Nobody saying it was a was a role model citizen. Now we're saying. He didn't deserve to die, and he was killed, and it was made okay by seven, and all of his accomplices his Brotherhood because. Is Crazy black man. We probably get away with the show which you'd have, you had a rice who was treated the same way Lou camera on him, but you also have George. Swimming who was fourteen accused murdering a white girl, a electrocuted Yep, and just four years ago five years ago. That he was innocent. Because because it's you know. Trust, and survival, and it's all about the trust issue, and we here in a but throughout the world. The color of your skin means you can't be trusted. You Your Voice, you don't have a boys and you can't be trusted because you're darker your grounder and that's the thing it. You are a person of color. They don't hear what you're saying. It don't believe what you're saying. Because the first thing people see you love your skin and you're judged by that immediately. When you walk in the room immediately when you get on the bus immediately when you go in the store, you're like oh here. Come Somebody Brown around you. Can someone black? Okay? You know we can't trust them. Untrustworthy and so I better watch them closely, because that person is not trustworthy, they have the ability, but but you know what I was saying in in terms of my practice in metaphysics, etcetera, you know that is the trust issues. That's the basis of all of this and I. Really believe a lot of it is based on guilt. Of course. You're not going to trust a person that you have. Actually you strip them of all their rights. You know you've been mean to them. It was like a dog. You GonNa. Treat a dog bad, and then you're gonNA say how come on, come on in that play with me at the start the dog. The dog you got the dog locked up and then all the site you're going to be like. Oh, well, you know. I will let you have to leave. Long. And so there's that fear of the guild, just being mean and horrible people of Color and now all of a sudden. You know they're free now who? Who I don't know. I know my math.

00:35:00 - 00:40:04

Family has a history of being Arbel black. People you know, and what I believe I believe that children. Then now with the technology and music and everything that we're all in a melting pot, and we concede that everyone is the same. This is why the the protests. Includes a lot of diversity. Because the kids I mean I I was. I've been to New York most of my life, you know. My daughter grew up in New York lots of white friends. It's to the point where she hit mostly all white friends at. was like you don't have any black friends, my. They look at each other that way now. The younger people have more open minded, and they know that their friends are their friends. They have more trust amongst themselves. Who is the older generation we've? They've done so much harm in the in the guise of color ISM. You know they've been so judgmental based on color ISM that now they're you're. Right. I ask. You Michelle because. You know we're kind of more in the city were in la I lived in New York. Can Oakland and I feel like there was a little more of the integration and that a lot of my friends. They didn't see the color issues as much in that way that if you are. Joel was talking about being impact or community. That's. You know a little more removed from a lot of culture. How there were a lot of people asking questions and calling in for today saying I want to expose my son or daughter, and they're more our age, maybe not the millennials, but how do they? How Joel helped to integrate culture for her kids being in a real white community in one of the great thing about it is easier now because you have. A media you got! You Got Movies Oh. My God movies. You've got books you got. The movies that are out now are just really telling so many stories. My daughter is eight years old at last Halloween. She wanted to go as the princess for Black Panther, so I bought her. The costume might go girl. That's awesome, but Then you know, there is a movement saying white people aren't allowed to dress up like a black character. You know even though she was just wearing the clothes. There's no your daughter, didn't not she know? She didn't understand it. All I didn't WANNA. Be judged on post. Pictures on facebook and have everybody. Come Down, so we scrapped outfit. She wears it for up at home, but she can't. where it out for Halloween so. I'm rotation with her around it, or did you just have to Kinda mom? Yeah at the time. She was a little younger so I I just kind of well why we have something, but now we're having the conversations now. Being in third grade I feel like she can get a little bit better, and she's just I mean her poor little eyes. She's wiser be so mad. I don't understand. Didn't this end in the eighteen hundreds? They teach them. Is What Most Martin Luther King fixed it. You know Abraham Lincoln fixed it Barack Obama came along. Everything's fixed. That's the number one problem. There there goes the. I thought it was fixed to. It just took. It just took the sheet off of it like Oh. We're good now. Again now. Miniature. It's why we got trump. It was the backlash for. Iraq Obama. and. One of the things that I've noticed though in when we were talking about the white supremacy that we live in. The TV show cops. What is that all about watch? That show is all about what black folks getting arrested Oh yeah, yeah! Eighty ninety percent of everybody shows up on a cop camera for that show, but you know what. They took off the air this week. This off the air is good thing because it's nothing more than demonstrating the lynching. Black folks have been getting from. Police for you. Let Folks Latinos man and you know it's also a one-sided lynching show, which won't really show the heinous crimes that are going down. And being protested. Would as I as I talked about as I. You know when I started talking about this type of. Black people and Brown people which Latinos in India right. I, think to myself, okay, but what about Asians? Yellow people yellow people are seem like in. No, they're in the area where it's like in the neutral area.

00:40:05 - 00:45:05

because. They don't really experience to too much of that it on. I'M GONNA say wow, yeah. Our talking about that a minute ago. And it starts for them as children. They're perceived as being the smart ones who. They're perceived as being the ones that will get hit their perceived as being who make the sacrifice to get ahead and they're quiet. So we we mess with a little bit Manatt a whole lot. We're not something on a once again. It's about the color that's right. It's about color ISM. HOLDING COLOR ISN is racism and I believe that the Black Panther film clay as played a big part in the rise of black nationalism and pride in the culture and accept. An, accent now by other than black folks because as Out as a movie and everybody could see, it wasn't exactly. It was a black movie, but because it had that comic air to it. Yes, it was relatable to everyone it was. And it was the highest grossing film like one of the world's most highest grossing films worldwide. Because one of my clients. He actually worked as she was one of the marketers for the film. So you know all that to say I feel like change is is coming. Just like your daughter. Eight years old. She wanted to be black. Panther and then we look at. Just the rise of just duty standards and clothing standards, and you know people are looking at that and I mean look at all the women on TV now wearing their natural hair, the news people. Were going on. At you. And so with that said there is a movie happening. So what have heard daughter had gone in that costume. What would be the feeling? Black Community fifty lived in New York fine. It's just what you live is your town. You know your daughter has like a a a more of A. City. Mentality. In the future, should you just go for it and be the one to set the precedent? If you're going to go for it in set, the precedence gotta prepare her for what she may come across, and he has to be able to answer to it like she went in any other situation, but she's gotTa have her own inner strength, but together, and she also has to have her verbal response ready to go, so Joel, as someone who is aware of the black community, but doesn't have an intimate connection with it has to also be able to. You've got to do. For your daughter that you want your daughter to have the same diversity, you want to see in your daughter. You have Tim submerse yourself in that as well no matter how uncomfortable it is. And the way you do that is by knowing what your intentions are. Like, could you want to understand the intention? And you know where your heart is that it doesn't matter if you do something or say something that's offensive when you give acknowledgement that and you know that your intentions were pure in you change that because I've offended, Asian people. Offended white people. I probably offended black people. and. Never within the ill intention, which means I had to apologize, and I had to correct some behavior, and that's normal. Just, living life I've told my daughter. I tell Cheyenne. You know saying you don't be wearing them skimpy clothes like that. And you go go on onto public. Yet last showing. You got your leg showing. You got some you got. You gotTa Bubis. Up Shit. Be Ready. Get Ready. Because you're going to have some men. That are going to react in a natural way that men do. They're gonNA. Whistle they're GONNA go hager. You know as so you have to be ready to. How you going to reply to that. In an intelligent manner. Because just saying fuck you. Is only going to get the repercussion of of a violent. Boomerang back at you so. You had to be you. Have you have to be able to react to that in an intelligent manner? If, you want to be you. You know, and so that's that's the same thing like that. Just reminded me of of what you say Marlene. You know what your daughter Joel. How you going to say, you can say yea, I don't see any color, but. As a white person who might? Not feel racism and you just want to be free.

00:45:06 - 00:50:08

You have other people in your society of fortunately that art. Three, under, you know under White, society and they've feel the barriers feel. The glass ceiling. They feel all of that and so. You. Know How you going to convince them that freedom is the way. You know okay, look. I got a character here. She's the white girl in the middle of the black flower, the the black flower cluster. Looks like wait. Wait girl in the middle and the petals of the flower. Petals of the flower all black girls right. Now this character was made up of a girl named Christine. Forum she played on. She's a friend of mine. She will collaborate musically right. She lives in Baltimore. She lives right in the middle of a black neighborhood in Baltimore. Right is same is the opposite of flying buttermilk? She's snowflake in the pit. She's homeys with everybody because she lives there. She knows how to talk the language. She knows what's going on right. Now that what what you're saying Jila just reminded me of despite here, right? She would have to be Caucasian ghetto flower, knowing the language, no the struggle, but at the same time. To Caucasian ghetto flower automatically pick herself out of the black flower cluster. And go to the Land Caucasian if she wanted to. Fit Ryan not have to deal with none of that shit if she wanted to. Write, but she likes being a Caucasian ghetto of flour in the middle of the ghetto in the middle black sits because she loves the culture, she likes to food. She likes to look. She likes to flavor. The music everything the way you. The way to not be racist. Is To immerse yourself. In all cultures in communities. That's how you're not be racist. It means go learn. Go live. Go Eat with those folks. Go eat their food. Take your kids to the black community. You're like well. What are we doing the black community? You do the same thing you do white community you go find something to eat. You, what's what's The lady's name that was. headed. C. P.. What was her name? Be Smith know. About Rachel does don't. Rachel those. INTO LACEY PE- Rachel Sorry And she got she got a bunch of shit she she was the pretending to be a black woman, but she was totally. You Know Rachel those they have a whole thing about remember that. Man. She got so much shit. Ford and I kept thinking to myself. I kept taking myself. One I'd. He's black. People given her so much shit was she is in position? Of advocating for them of radical here by an killing it killing. Great but now you've got jealous haters, black people whether black because she was nine genetically cracks. You choose pretended, but she felt black Martinez. He felt like in her mind, right? That's what that's what you call a wicker call white nigger right, but she was, she was really. Doing a great job. I'm like why Y'all Java's and it was. They got rid of nobody. Step into seat, right? She mood on, but as I got damn motherfuckers. Jill. I just wanted to say he was talk Asia Get up. I wanted to say this about you. Know for you and your daughter. The fact that she wanted to be apprentice, because once again it goes back to you who she is because just her wanting to be that. You know don't don't discourage her from her natural inclinations because society. You know because if that's who she is Y- you have to talk to her about why she likes that, and what? What? What? That means to her empower her. Her choices. And be courageous and whatever it is she wants to do. Back to with me, you know I everything I've ever done has gone against my family values. You know however. It's okay because my mother encouraged me and she said you know what you're just ahead of your time. It's okay for you either like these things and wanted to these things because I think the biggest cause of mental illness is when parents do not allow their children to follow their natural inclination, xactly at discuss it with them and ask them. Why do you do this? And what does that mean to you? Because just because society doesn't approve of things does not mean that you have demolished.

00:50:08 - 00:55:01

Demolished at that's how we changed the world. We changed the world with the things that that are giving us within you know because a lot of great inventions, a lot of things would never happen in this world if people would not, if people did not file their natural inklings in their talents to be creative, and to write books or to make stats, so maybe your daughter has the ability to change the world and your community, but you have to encourage her can't limit it all guy. Now it's that line between protecting somebody right? I didn't want her to get teased and feel less than and maybe I'm projecting happened to me when I was in first grade. I think the first little boy kissed the slow black boy at my school and I got majorly tease for it I mean I got shut down and was made to feel a lot of shame, and that stuck with me, so you know you wanNA protect your kid, but you gotta let them go out there and smiling like that. Because it just reminded me you were saying that. The first boy was black. Boys Cool. What a lot of what the would say as it was one thing worse than a Nigga is a Nigga love. Cute. Hey Can I. Do you guys mind if I'm GONNA single each view out with a question that we had people call in with questions. A lot of listeners are white women, a handful. A lot of people are in different countries, so they're going to be learning a lot about American. Culture and so Angela will give you the first one your thoughts on. All lives matter versus black lives matter, and if anybody else has something to say about police man I knew that was coming. I knew Andrew. And I knew that was coming. Yeah, well. Yes, all lives matter of course all lives matter right, but. I know. Being a black American in a white society right. Black people. And Latino Indians have been the ones that have been. Lynched And Kill the most. especially at the bottom of the social totem pole right. There shouldn't be any bottom of any social total pole for anybody to be at in the first place. Okay but because. Of this. Angelo holding up a twenty dollar bill. This automatically gives this people who look like this their lives more important. Anybody else that. Don't look like this. So. This is why I can definitely agree as as a black man. I can definitely agree to black lives matter. Yes, all lives matter, but you don't get. You don't really see. Any any any white lives. Being with a Neon, their neck, or being hung by rope, or being tormented or murdered in the street. You. Don't see that caught on camera which you see caught on camera are black lives being killed? And and Latino lives or than anybody else. Would would what happened to joy? Would that have ever happened to a white person? Now. Not? In that we're not a black person is is accused of A. Twenty Dollars Bill. Now a white person if that. Say! Hey, man, just getting the money for the cigarettes. You know you know Jake somebody out of their cars for a forged the twenty dollars now. That's what would have a white person. But a black person or Officers come the Yank out the call. Or forgery by big about that that right there the crime does not. Equal the punishment. You know and that is where the problem is. When people say all lives matter, obviously, it doesn't because the crowds don't equal the punishment with your person of color, especially, a black man in handcuffs in handcuffs over something minor. To a family. They were protecting a store looters. And they were standing there. Because this is store, you know this guy, he. He's like service. The community been here for forty years my family. We're going to protect the stores of the Lewd. Don't store the store.

00:55:01 - 01:00:04

There was a newswoman woman there. She was a Hispanic you know they call the police police. Pass by you know the people project in store. They flagged the police Dale they come, and then they put they arrest the people that were protecting the store and the news woman had to say no. No, no, they're not the people they the people they were in this. They went the other way, but she had to intervene. With the police officers and vouch for them, saying that they were not the criminals, they were the ones who called the police, and they already had all of them in handcuffs. So when people talk about black lives matter. That's what they're talking about. How because you could you know? Julie Julianne could be together and of someone called the police. They're going to arrest me. Because of the color of my skin. And she'd have to vouch for me. So this is a this is where we are in the. We are an a covert apartheid system. And that is what we're dealing with. And it's getting stronger and stronger now, because because Obama. A black people are feel like they've got too comfortable and and feel like they that we have we have. We are rising up Marlene. You're agreeing with that. I fully agree with that and and one of the pieces of. The data that I would point this person who's asked this question. Is Michelle Alexander's book. The new Jim Crow when you look. At African Americans are roughly twelve to fifteen percent of this nation's population. Represent over forty. Of this nation's prison population, you understand that it is black lives that need to matter because we are disproportionately challenged, arrested killed and lynched in multiple ways. Then why? Am I think this is why black lives matter needs to be the hallmark. Yes, all lives matter because I. Don't want any other race facing what we way we have faced. But what we have faced has to stop. Is, it's a unanimous answer and the. The coined phrase black lives matter. Bothers a lot of people. I thought about it last week and I said there's a lot of white folks that can't even say black. White folks that can't say the word black because they don't even feel comfortable. Saying the word black making. They're gonNA. Offend someone. Are we African American like because they don't know how to refer to us. They won't refer to us. They won't say anything because they're just unsure. What we're saying is black. Lives matter to. Last also matter black lives matter as win as Wael. Pointed to truncated and just said black lives matter to make a point. I make a point. You know, Toyota. That brings me back to this. Team Shirt Angeles holding the flag that says fuck, reasons and Stern. For a minute. As, a couple of guys band Angelo. or We say it focuses Macaws parkway system is. Is A to offensive, and it's going away so. We at one point, we redesigned his shirt. To say. God. Like no more racism, ause something light something ladder folk, right. And I was I. Now. No. We need to say fuck racism. Because first of all, you got a lot of hard hitting people out there right unless you get in their face and say fuck racism. That narrows it is. There's only one way you can look at it. The word fuck is a negative exclamation point, right? There's no way around that shit. If you give him any kind of like. Own outside of that lane. Oh. It's okay, it's racism name that man it's all right. We can kind of get rid of it. Maybe we can get no fuck racism. On. George Clinton tour with founder Baseball Delic dumpster fall. I would go on the audience right a flag that look like this but the. Toll was ten feet tall, and the flag was five by eight or maybe ten feet, long and feet up and down right, so I go.

01:00:04 - 01:05:00

I David. Outweighed is flying all around audience right? Walk Around and audience and waving his flag. Both before we go on stage right so. I'm in. Northern California this out waving the flag social security comes up to me and he goes. You can't do that. Why not. Will Oh that's. That's a he got couldn't even remember the word he said after that out he he came up with that. That's not right on Michael Courses Right. Look at the whole frame east. Don't you feel the way? And then he got any Galvez walkie-talkie and he had to say what you know this diet that. The singer. Alison. Anywhere at all of a sudden crowd start. Boo Boo Boo. Born instead. He got a call from his guy. He let them go at Easter. Thank you. Sir Hands out ahead. Grandma and GRANDPA taking pictures of me on the virus Dan. This other city we were in the security told me to take Take the flag away right so I took the flag. And when he when our way FAG on backstage and put it away, dad got up on stage and I said you know. I said to everybody I say. It was. You know you can't do that. Because his kids in the audience right I'm like okay. Someone else station! I said. Okay all you kids out there. Mom Dad kids. Told me to put your fuck racism flag away so. We all noted there's racism in this country, right? And, so we want our kids. We don't want our kids to say. Fuck. But what is something as bad as racism and if your kids have been victim of races? Right I want Ya to stand up. Whoever it may have been a victim of racism is so he got all these kids standard starting to stand up? And say okay. Look is not good to have your kids. Sam Cook, but you should also. You should be able to teach your kids to say fuck quasim because we don't want racism to be in the picture anymore to site cancer. But Cancer. Fuck racism. And they all yeah I gave a fuck. And Win the first song and. Beautiful. I wanted to ask two more questions all. Together, but tell me whoever wants to answer. Maybe we can make any answers. Get out to the questions. which is Kinda big, but what you say, white people who are afraid to get into a dialogue like this with black folks for fear of doing it wrong. Okay that's one. The other one is what can we do now? And, what could we do that last? Address the what we can do now. What we can do now first of all the me answer the first question. The first question is what do we do if we want to get involved and we want to engage in conversation and we don't. WanNa do it wrong. This is like anything else you learn. You cannot have fear of failure if you're going to see succeed. So set it up so that you can be successful. and own up to what you know. Ask about what you need to know. and. Be sure that you're learning a lesson of what you've learned. And then. What are we change me? Have to change nearly everything about what we're doing. From buying a home, the financial institutions have to change. They cannot be red light neighborhoods. Anymore grocery stores can and still do. In some poorer neighborhoods, you can't find a grocery store, but you can to Popeye's chicken. Cladding, conditions have got to change what they're doing and financial. Institutions have to change as well. Our political structure has to change. We cannot afford to have many of these people who are who are not signing legislation that needs to be signed and science stuff. That shouldn't be sign. In our state local and national government agencies. We need to bow. Voting is important. I think we learned the lesson of why we need to vote.

01:05:01 - 01:10:02

Boating is an act. Of, the decision. But she got to be educated about the decision you're making. Vote for the guy because he may be a dumb. Vote for pretty girl that she might not be the one you really want. You need to educate yourself about who and what you're voting for. Because to do it any other way east to get. What most of us don't like. We have a system that is set up. Where they can gerrymander districts. And they can obstruct the right of people in this country to vote. We have been talking for a whole three years about the near constitutional crisis. That is happening in Washington. And it keeps happening. And our down to. What I'm I'm very worried about. Is that this country in this man. Are Setting Shadow government. A shadow government when you bring people in who don't identify themselves when you militarizing. The the armed forces against its own people. kind of stuff we see in other countries by there's a dictatorship were an authoritarian regime. That's basically what we have. That has to check age. If we hope to create a structure that follows the value we say we have. Our values are acting every single day now they stand up there and say well we have. This is not our value. Then you better be operating on your value. Would value is. When you make a decision to pass a piece of legislation. Who are you impacting disproportionate? And, so yes, everything has to change and black lives matter. And the structure of what we have is about to come down around our ears and were watching it happen. It is anybody else wanted comment on those last two questions? For Michelle. I wanted to say something about just in terms of white white depot. The person who asked asks the question so first and foremost okay, so this this is what's happening to black people. And now Leonard. Trust the white woman so okay, so okay. Black lives matter right. Let's talk about I. Know You guys may have seen the handmaid's to okay so when it comes to Hauer. And so this is what Pete we talked about. You know in terms of. Think about your fears. Like what are you really afraid of winning black? Because it all starts with your own opinion and your own judgment when it comes to people of Color and I think that's where people have to start the conversation with themselves and their families like in your family. What have you been told what you heard? What are you saying like? What has influenced your opinion when it comes to people of Color and then examine your fierce? Examine, you know Oh when I see a person coming into my workplace, a person of color and that person is my neighbor. Am I getting anxiety? Am I starting to feel anxious because a black person is in my office and sitting next to me? Or to sitting together to sitting together or when I go to a restaurant, and they sit me beside the black family. Am I starting to feel anxious because that's where it all starts because those your, that's your subconscious mind telling you to be fearful. Your fight or flight response so this is weird. It has to start with examining why you feel that way and is that. Is that like an automatic negative thought or process that you have inherently? placed in your subconscious mind, and it's in your DNA, and then you can start to change how bill because you're gonNA start noticing that it does not make sense for you to feel uncomfortable around people that you don't even know just because they showed up. Or you're standing. Elevators, thing I'll. Black Guy comes in the elevator. Are you automatically nervous? Because all here's three black kids in the elevator am I gonNa be I, have my soul nervous? About what does that mean to me? It, lets you start.

01:10:02 - 01:15:04

Hard behavior, and how you are personally feeling about people of color then you can start to heal from that. What do you do as an antithesis to feeling the fear with the three kids in the elevator? Well, you start rationalizing it and you think about they're just kidding. It's that's it. You know they are just kids. Depend, you could. You could even say well. What if they were at? My suggestion? Is that you said well? What if they were white kids? Skirting hunger station with ask. Their kids. Doing Day what are you guys up to? It's called. It's called. Be Kind and polite. To relate to people speak to people. I have a Lotta. People say Nice things to people. Oh, you smell good pay compliments, people. We can do that with all people. It's a practice and guess what it's a practice. I've done all my life. It is I do it because it makes me feel more comfortable because when you meet a person or when you come across a person, this these barriers. It feels uncomfortable because you don't know them. Speak to a person, say hello. I know in the black community. We're raised to speak to people all the time. That's why we say what's up. How do we acknowledge people black votes? If me and Michelle, don't even know each other and we see each other. We'll have a an acknowledgment with each other and Angelo. The same way is just it's the way were raised in our community of that is what has saved our answers in the community. Because when you speak to a person, you help to break down that barrier or you find out right away. Oh? There is a barrier. That right, do I told my daughter I took my daughter and there was thirteen years old treviso. I took him down at skit role. As it, let's go walk around skid row. They walk around and ideas got arms all. Showed his officer. I say relax. Say Hi. To. Hire people when they when they come down the street. fucking bummer crazy. Lady Otherwise. They're going to be like. Oh, they good to say something us right. As so that why to break that barrier with your really on, you'd say hi to the people at school when you go to school. To people on the street. So. It seems like it's all about fear to. Everybody needs to just go out there and not be afraid to talk to people. Because you know. Maybe a white lady would say. I do want to say hi, but I don't Wanna come across as trying so hard like I need Anita Black friends so I'm going to say hi. But then they're gonNA. Think I must be racist. I'm trying to get over my racism, so I'm like I. Need my token black friend, or you always hear this, too, but it's like. Get over yourself and just get out of. Control you cannot control someone. Else's response to you can only control your behavior and how you present yourself. In Joel. You're not alone. We're all doing it when I go into where I live. Up here in northern California, where it's mighty white I won't be the only black guy in in the savage nation, and I'll walk in there and need to acknowledge people and I'll hold the door for a gentleman if he's going to the bathroom where we're switching. Were exchanging and I'm kind of polite mistakes. News me and I am not doing and I. Don't know. I want to say how you doing bro to boy. Sometimes I, do sometimes I know it but I put myself up there. With the best intentions. Just. Let the cards fall where they will. Write. A reality of everyone everywhere. It's just going to have. More Times than none. People are going to respond to you in the same way you respond to them. You acknowledged him and speak kindly to them. Smile at them lightly to him. That's most are going to back some people dead. That's that's the Bible raise. Do unto others as they will do unto you. People most people have good intentions. And that's the thing that we failed to realize. Most people are good people. You know and when we go round. Assuming. That people are not. That's what you're GONNA get assuming. You assume that people are not good people. You're going to get that because you're GONNA project. That that feeling of not being a good person or being judgmental, and so you know it all starts with it. That's how I feel and I tell you I've been in situations where I've been the only I was in Denmark, I was, they told me and a small small town, and they said I was the first black person they ever saw.

01:15:04 - 01:20:01

That I was lying, Wow! It was crazy and this was in. This is in the nineties, and I'm thinking I'm the first black person. In your town, 'cause. It was crazy, but it was okay with it. I was like okay. They asked me crazy questions about my hair and everything you know and I said well. You know you never seen a black person before I didn't feel uncomfortable, even though we drinking wine at eight am. Can you close us out Angela with a beautiful? You've got so many good poems. And something that might be topic. I think you had a couple. You know what okay here's one that's been. Here's what I've been putting out there lately and it's and it's off of Taiji infidelity, and it's called project blackout. Project blackout is what's been happening for the past four hundred years, but they really put it into overdrive. Because of you know. Archie bunker joker got fucking president now, right? So. It's called project blackout. and. We need to stop project blackout, but let me just. I'm laid on everybody just in case. They realize what's happening all right. Vacations Tommaso! You had no time to head out. We've been waiting for you here at the office and the company will fail without you so often. That's stupid, Moroccan outfit. Is your suit and tie where you left it. Red and black genocide and ethnic cleansing. Millions of dollars in this fear based investment, you'll pinstripe suit of armor annual, bulletproof true. Bottomless Black Credit Card in God complex, an endless access and everything withdraw from senseless murder down straight up breaking the law. Cuts Clan K. K.. K. possum prepared to kill darkies in Larosa. Don't you worry about a thing? If it's caught on camera phone, usually get out of jail. Free Card Willis scorched right bag on well black and red lives. Don't matter. Time kill for the red, white and blue. If. You don't remember the old you, too. Will we chill do? And you swore it on a dollar bill and a NEGRA NKHOMA CAR. You said you didn't care how peaceful white folks look. They're only pods. Sacrifices in the beatdown go on and on and all. Jay Blackout Project Blackout. Jake blackout snap out of it. Man Screwed it. He'd be. Truly and beaded necklace. You've been living on a mountain side too long with the natives, and you're highly mistaken it. You think education is going to save them, 'cause we're scared to death and full of fear, so we're killing what we don't understand. It might be a threat job, men, women and children. Causing divide by hatred. Don't you not love is the answer and types show of and sacred is the reason why we're. Here is the reason why we're living. Is the reason for the ants. That's why hearts heartbeat. Five hundred and forty five in Congress on the inside. Three hundred million USA on the outside. As long as we keep them in the dark and keeping them all from being smart on. Saturating the airwaves with low frequency and bite you. In white privilege. And prejudice. And lack of education. With project. Blackout. Project blackout. Off. Blackout. You always want to keep that free spirit feeling. Don't let them turn your sky into ceiling. You Go. This is Dr by right here. Your Comprehensive Link Colleges recommended that you arm yourself for the pro prophylactic coating consciousness. Thank, you Angela. As the bull your mouth! For an opportunity to talk and educate learn a little bit from each other. Thank you Marlene for making the time. Thank you my lane. Thank you both, thank you. My Inc Yo everybody we are so honored to have. Such beautiful people and love you. Everyone plays excellent. You guys that's. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Everything from this episode is on MouseAndWeens.com and the video version is on YouTube. We'd love your feedback, so please consider rating and reviewing us on Apple Podcasts or Podchaser also please share and tell your friends because that is the best way we can grow.

01:20:01 - 01:21:19

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